Saturday, June 15, 2013

MORE REASONS FOR WRITING THE RECTOR: Part the Sixth


Another one of the old poets (whose name escapes me at the moment) said that truth is the daughter of time. Aulus Gellius

On close analysis, the weakest argument for one-handed conferral of priestly orders is what the Blunderer misdescribes as a "decision" of the Holy Office. The word "decision" connotes a judgment or, more precisely, a conclusion based on a careful consideration of all the arguments and solemnly delivered by a competent body after consultation with disciplinary experts. Moreover, we would expect a decision of the Holy-Office to be in the form of a written decree.

There's no such animal in Tony's wild menagerie of misleading enlargement, irrelevancy, and linguistic error. What the Blunderer tries to pass off as a "decision" is in actuality hearsay.  Here are the naked facts: A theologian (Regatillo) passed along an unidentified bishop's anecdote about (1) making an inquiry somewhere at the Holy Office regarding one-handed conferral of priestly orders and (2) receiving a reply affirming the validity of orders so conferred. The theologian did not personally hear the reply. He merely reported this bishop got an answer.* Regatillo did not use the word "decision."

Let us pause, at this juncture, to make an all-too-obvious observation: 
An unidentified bishop's avowal that he received a presumably oral answer from an unnamed source in the Holy Office is definitely not a formal decision of  the Holy Office.
Note particularly that, beyond the sparely narrated account, the theologian supplied no concrete details: no name of the bishop, no date of the visitation to the Holy Office, no description of the attendant circumstances of the encounter, no name or title of the official(s) who gave the answer, no date of the defective ordination, etc. All we have is a minimalist account akin to a log entry .

Mind you, now, we're not saying the theologian or this certain bishop lied. As it stands, the anecdote is a piece of information that belongs to our investigation. However, it cannot, by any strectch of the imagination, be raised to the dignity of a decision of the Holy Office, with all the coercive force that such pronouncements carry.

After all, the reply may have come from one of the lesser officers of the Congregation, one who may have been speaking off the record to a private individual. He may not even have had a brief to offer an opinion on the subject, but perhaps informally ventured one anyway on that occasion. We will never know. But one thing's for certain: without concrete collateral details and a knowledge of the identity of the declarant as well as of the functionary who answered the query, we cannot assess the weight of the reply: It certainly isn't irrelevant, but neither is it confirmatory. It's just, say... thought-provoking.

In any case, the report is secondhand and hence must be considered hearsay, which is inherently weak: we cannot form a judgment of the directly involved parties' competence, trustworthiness, veracity, or accuracy.**  For the credulous, the meager anecdote may be persuasive, but for deeper thinkers without an agenda or vested interests, it fails to overcome a prudent man's positive doubt. The teaching of Pope Pius XII is simply too specific: imposition of hands is the matter of priestly orders. There's no getting around it.

In time, a restored Church may confirm or disconfirm the truth of the answer given to Regatillo's anonymous bishop (whoever he was). Only then will we know for certain that one-handed conferral of priestly orders is or is not valid. But that time, if it is to come at all, may lie far away in the future. Meanwhile, to safeguard the integrity of holy orders here and now, we must deeply discount the grossly inflated evidentiary value the Blunderer assigns this hearsay account, which he erroneously characterizes as a "decision of the Holy Office." Let's just say it's a story that merits notice, and let us, at the same time, conscientiously mark the absence of official confirmatory documentation

The bottom line is that today no one can be certain the conferral of priestly orders with one-hand is valid. There is not enough evidence to exclude the possibility of error. Accordingly, to put an end to all disputation (including ours), "One-Hand Dan" must be persuaded to undergo painless and quick conditional ordination and consecration. Call or email the rector today and tell him to get Dannie fixed. Then Dannie can fix all those poor slobs he's ordained. After that, he'll be free as a bird to ordain the Rev. Mr. Nkamuke at the cult center in November so the zombies still can believe he serves a purpose in Traddielandia. Then everybody will be happy (except, perhaps, the Blunderer. Dannie will be very displeased with the shoddy effort that resulted in his surrender).

Next week, in view of the approaching 37th anniversary of the infamous 1976 ordinations, Pistrina will share its reasons for believing the nine Roman Catholic priests who, in 1990, admonished Dannie about one-handed conferral of priestly orders.



*The Latin text , as Tony prints it, reads "eique responsum fuit validam fuisse ordinationem presbyteralem in qua Episcopus unicam manum imposuit," which he translates as "Its response was that a priestly ordination in which the bishop imposed one hand was valid...." [Blunderer's emphasis.] In this rendering, the noun "response" certainly sounds very official, and we grant that there is in Latin a noun responsum that denotes an official reply (as, for instance, in Denzinger, when we read Resp[onsum]. Commissionis de re Biblica ("Reply of the Biblical Commission").

We further allow that, as a serviceable translation into plain English for informal purposes, Tony's version is acceptable, although it is not entirely accurate, for the underlying Latin construction is the impersonal passive (with fuit for est, a not uncommon substitution). Literally, ...eique responsum fuit... means,"..and it was answered to him...," or even more literally, "...and an answering to [or for] him took place...." The semantic difference is subtle but not insignificant:  the passive voice, in addition to avoiding naming an agent, emphasizes the action as a whole and highlights the notion that an action was produced or effected. In other words, we have before our minds an activity, not a product (i.e., a formal or semi-formal ruling), as the word "response" would lead us to assume. A more accurate, yet still idiomatic, rendering would have been "...and they answered him [or said in reply to him]...."

Less charitable souls might say the slippery ol' Blunderer was being deceptive, as in his grossly erroneous mistranslation of the papal teaching of Sacramentum Ordinis. We'd rather say that, owing to his insurmountable educational deficits, he just couldn't fathom the Latin (as his translation "its response was that..." [emphasis ours] strongly seems to suggest).


** In anticipation of the hysterical reaction of some CLODs ("close loyalists of Dannie"), we hasten to observe that to question competence, trustworthiness, veracity, and accuracy does not necessarily imply the declarant is a liar. There are many elements beyond mendacity, which could impeach a declarant's testimony: advanced age, memory, misinterpretation, language impediments,environmental, emotional, social, and psychological factors, etc. The imprimatur issued for the Regatillo's manual offered no warrant against the intrusion of errors of fact (purposeful or inadvertent), or else why do we find the following printer's error on p. 744 (1.277) of the 2nd edition of Ius Sacramentarium: firmo onere caelibatus..?


16 comments:

  1. A famous canonist, one of the world's leading experts on canon law and sacramental theology, says ordination with one hand is valid and not doubtful. He states that the Holy Office has decided that question that way many times.

    And yet we are supposed to disregard both him and the Holy Office because an ignorant layman who doesn't even reveal his name says so on the internet.

    Whatever.

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    1. You must suffer from near terminal dyslexia. Get one thing straight: there was no formal Holy Office decision -- EVER. The canonist merely reported what someone alleged he was told. That's hearsay.

      But don't believe us. Go read Cheeseball Checkie's article (or ask someone to read it to you): You'll see (or hear) what Regatillo said -- and more importantly -- what he didn't say. Then you may remove your foot from your uninformed mouth.

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    2. You seem to have missed my main point, so I'll try to say this in smaller words so you can understand me this time:

      If Regatillo says one-handed ordination is valid and an anonymous blog on the internet says it's doubtful, who should we believe — Regatillo or the blog?

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    3. You should believe the blog, for its analysis is more compelling and more critically founded. Anonymity means nothing. An intelligent man, which you patently are not, examines arguments, not bylines. In addition, a man at home with Catholic modes of discourse knows the limits of the sententia theologorum. But in pious respect to the shades of Fr. Regatillo, we know he was only offering an obiter dictum. Profound intellectual that he was, he would have surrendered to this blog's unassailable deconstruction of his language.

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    4. So you want us to disregard an eminent theologian like Regatillo in favor of a blog by a layman with no credentials in theology whatsoever. Okay, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you guys. Thanks.

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    5. Look: We can imagine how difficult it must be to go through life with a severe cognitive impairment, but we don't have the medical expertise to assist you. Tell your caregiver that the Pistrina wants Catholics to value reasoning first and foremost. Celebrity can never trump the facts, nor can it defeat an airtight argument. Furthermore, if you had been able to process what you read, you would have seen that our argument was not directed per se against Regatillo: it was leveled at Tony the Blunderer's misleading characterization of hearsay as a decision of the Holy Office.

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  2. OK, Reader, let's suppose everything you say is correct. Don't you see the incalculable harm you are doing to the traditional movement. If the other side (no pun intended) hired someone to destroy the Traditional Church they could not have found anyone more lethal than you. You should be proclaiming what it good and wholsome in tradition and if you find abuses then you should make them know to the parties who are at fault. These failing should be kept in house not proclaimed for the world to see. Unless you are doing it to show your superior knowledge and intellect. That is what comes through in your postings. While your intention may be praisworthy your method is scandalous.

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    1. Actually, we're trying to save the traditional movement. Like many others, we all have tried, in one way or another, to correct these parties in private. They will not reform, as you must certainly know yourself.

      If we are to preserve all that's good and wholesome in tradition, we must first point out all that's wrong and noxious in what is passed off as tradition, with the firm hope that the laity will demand correction by refusing financial support.

      We're not trying to gainsay you, but we can only see the incalculable benefit that will come from exposing ignorance, pride, pretense, and self-interest.

      Please note that this series has had its positive side: we've shown "One Hand" an easy way to silence us on the topic of one-handed ordination. Conditional orders are easy to administer, and the rites can be completed in a matter of minutes.

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    2. For people who value "transparency" and "accountability" as much as you people do, you sure are pretty ... um ... opaque and unaccountable yourselves. And as far as trying to "correct these parties in private", as you claim to have done with your clergy (if you have any anymore), you seem to have as little interest in listening to correction as the clergy you condemn.

      All your arguments amount to little more than, "My argument is the best, so I win!" You're pathetic.

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  3. Regarding “Anonymous No. 1” (because I think that he and the “Anonymous” who replied later are two different people): To what sub-phylum of the plant world does he belong (or has he made it all the way to the “toxic protoplasm” stage)? Didn’t he read the article? Actually, a better question is: Can he read at all – or (at least) comprehend?

    And regarding his argument about whom does one believe (Regatillo or “an anonymous blog”), let me pose this question to you: Whom does one believe – the high-priest Caiaphas, or an “anonymous itinerant preacher with no credentials” from Nazareth? Stop shooting the messenger and start listening to the MESSAGE, dummkopf! You belong on a window-sill in a terra-cotta pot (but I wouldn’t want to water you; I’m afraid you might grow!).

    As for “Anonymous No. 2, he doesn’t fare much better. English must not be his first language, for his sentence structure, grammar, and punctuation are fairly atrocious. But his logic is even more so: “incalculable harm” to the traditional movement, and using a method that is “scandalous”? Are you serious? Antonius Balonius has done a good enough job of that HIMSELF (with his anal WHH and his criminally insane (and immoral) “treatise” on Schiavo, to name just two examples). If you ever read any of his trash – and I’m sure you have – both his IGNORANCE and his ARROGANCE come shining through as plain as day.

    It is Cekada (and Dolan, his partner in crime) who have done incalculable harm to the traditional movement – and the scandal they have caused is LEGENDARY (and well-documented). They are the POSTER CHILDREN for that sort of thing. Get a brain, idiot!! As “the Reader” pointed out to you in the last reply, several people have tried PRIVATELY and DISCREETLY to get Danny and Tony to “face-savingly” correct their ways, but their monstrous arrogance and pride always get in the way. You know this; but like many other brain-dead “traddies,” you’re more interested in “appearances” – in what LOOKS good vs. what IS good. If you want to save “traditional Catholicism,” stop defending the actions of charlatans like Dolan and Cekada, and start embracing the truth.

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    1. JIM GEBEL SHOUTED: "And regarding his argument about whom does one believe (Regatillo or “an anonymous blog”), let me pose this question to you: Whom does one believe – the high-priest Caiaphas, or an “anonymous itinerant preacher with no credentials” from Nazareth?"

      People listened to Our Lord because of the miracles He worked and the holiness of His life and teachings. Those were His credentials. He certainly didn't tell anyone to ignore who He was and just listen to His message. He worked miracles to prove it. So if Craig Toth ever cures a leper, just let me know. Actually he could probably turn a healthy person *into* a leper. My skin actually feels kind of crawly when I'm reading this blog sometimes ...

      JIM GEBEL SHOUTING AGAIN: "Stop shooting the messenger and start listening to the MESSAGE, dummkopf!"

      You and Eamon liked to quote that expression about shooting the messenger, but I don't think you really understand what it means. A messenger is someone who receives a message from someone else and then is sent by him to deliver the message. In other words, a messenger is someone who is delivering a message from *someone else*. That's why you don't shoot the messenger, because it's not his message. No one is properly said to be his own messenger. If Craig tells me his judgment of a case of sacramental theology (such as is here), then he's not a messenger. If he is, then I want to know whose message it actually is and who sent him. But it's his own opinion, and his opinion is worth as much as his competence in the subject he's talking about.

      Let me explain this another way. I could write a blog about astrophysics, but whatever I wrote would be worthless because I know nothing about the subject. And if I wrote anonymously, nobody would pay any attention at all because they would have no way to know I knew what I was talking about. Why should they waste their time reading something that could be complete nonsense? It makes no sense to let the message speak for itself, because unless someone is already an astrophysicist he wouldn't have any way to know how accurate the message was anyway. That's why people have credentials in the first place — so other people will know they can trust their knowledge in the subject.

      Now imagine if I started a blog about astrophysics (having no knowledge of the subject) in which I stated that an astrophysics textbook was wrong in some fundamental question. How absurd would that be? Yet that's what we have here. Someone who has no idea what he's talking about is claiming to know better than a book written by Fr. Regatillo, S.J., one of the premier theologians of his day.

      And no, the argument doesn't speak for itself. What speaks for itself is that when you want to learn something about a particular subject matter you read a book written by an expert in the field, not a blog written by a nobody.

      And Craig is not a messenger. He's just a guy expressing his own opinions.

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    2. In the marketplace of ideas, each opinion is considered on its own merits, not on the pedigree of its proponent. The beauty of academic discourse lies in the fact that each opinion, no matter who proposes it, must be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny. A word to the wise: your irrational outburst is not scrutiny, nor is your fallacious appeal to reputation. Fr. Regatillo would have roundly condemned your bigotry (after laughing himself silly at your cluelessness).

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    3. QUOTH TOTH: "The beauty of academic discourse lies in the fact that each opinion, no matter who proposes it, must be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny."

      If you really believe that, then I suggest you try this experiment. Go to your local institution of higher learning and ask them if you can deliver a guest lecture on some academic subject of your choice. Guess what the first thing they're going to ask you is?

      ...

      Wait for it ...

      ...

      "WHAT DEGREES DO YOU HAVE IN THIS SUBJECT?" And if you don't have any advanced degrees in that subject, then your opinion won't even get to the point of "withstand[ing] vigorous scrutiny." You'll be giving your presentation on the sidewalk outside along with all the other (mostly left-wing) activists who abuse the First Amendment on our university campuses today.

      Because no one is going to listen to the words of someone speaking about an advanced and technical subject like sacramental theology unless he has some credentials in the field.

      So much for your "marketplace of ideas". I think anyone shopping in your "marketplace of ideas" should "caveat emptor"!

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  4. Anonymous, the Reader was mercifully easy on you (although you don’t deserve such clemency). You have no arguments to offer. You’re grasping at straws. That foot in your mouth has bypassed your tonsils and is now somewhere in your lower intestinal tract. Give it up, dimwit! You’re embarrassing not only yourself, but the two lepers whom you think you are defending (I’m surprised that they haven’t muzzled you yet, for you are doing them more harm than good). And as for your naming peoples’ names, what does that prove (or accomplish), other than giving them free publicity? And, by the way, as long as you are naming names, why not name YOURSELF?

    If you want to dispute, stick to the subject matter, not to conjecture -- or to giving definitions of what you think “messenger” means. In the expression “shooting the messenger,” “messenger” means “the person delivering a message,” NOT “someone sent by someone else.” Any idiot can figure that out. But I forgot -- you never made it to “idiot”; you’re still in that plant sub-phylum. So, I guess it’s “back to the window-sill” for you!

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  5. "The traditionalist movement" amongst the sedevacantists has degenerated itself into a politico-religious pseudo-culture that has usurped the illustrious place wherein Holy Mother Church should enthroned in the hearts of these Catholics.

    The acephalous and vagrant clerics who identify with this politico-religious stance have been exceedingly wanting, especially when they pretend to be some sort of authorities whether in the presentations they give from the "pulpits" or what they write or say that the disoriented layfolk mistake for apologetics, theological tracts, &c.

    I write "presentations" instead of homilies or sermons, since these clerics have no Canonical mission or faculty to preach. Neither supplied jurisdiction nor epikeia entitles the acephalous and vagrant clerics to make "presentations" of their personal perspectives and opinions as if they were doctrines pertaining to faith and morals that bind the Catholic conscience under pain of sin or censure. Epikeia merely allows these clerics to present sacred doctrine from the pulpit without having moral culpability or rashness necessarily imputed unto them by casuists and moral theologians of future ages. However, this is only insofar as these "presentations" propose sacred doctrine as taught by the Ecclesia docens and as understood by the Ecclesia discens throughout the ages. To exceed this would imperil the cleric as possibly being deemed by future casuists to be culpable of sin or ecclesiastical censure.

    Furthermore, none of these clerics have been trained according to the norms of Canon Law as theologians, canonists, &c. They cannot have theological opinions stricte dicitur but merely present the opinions of approved theologians of past ages. Anything further than this (especially personal exegesis, particularly dictated by traddieland polity and autolatry, and decontextualization, all the more poignant on account of obvious agendas and poor scholarship) merits the censure and criticism of anyone. The sutane is not a free-pass for mediocrity, abuse, &c., and it shall become the noose whereby they will hang as Judas for having thus profaned and attacked the Mystical Body of Christ for the sake of self-serving ulterior motives. The layfolk who should be aware of this but nonetheless continue to abide by these clerics are also complicit in this simoniacal and insidious crime.

    The acephalous aggregate of false shepherds “are indeed ravenous wolves” (Mt. 7:15), who, having the seeming of lambs and yet betraying themselves to be dragons (Apoc. 13:11), yearn “to shed blood, and to destroy souls, and to run after gains through covetousness” (Ez. 22:27); for they have not ingressed unto Sacred Orders by sanction of the Church of Our Lord Jesus, Who proclaimed Himself to be the Door (Joan. 10:9) through Whom alone are His ministers sent to preach the Sacred Gospel (Rom. 10:15); and, having not a divine mission, out of their self-will and self-love they are as a thief who “cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy” (Joan. 10:10). There are exceptions, of course: but these are mostly silent and unknown, busying themselves only with serving the faithful; and they are too few in number.

    This is why an "anonymous layman" in some "blog" can and should correct these men.

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  6. The "anonymous layman" in some blog is Jim Gebel, for the benefit of those who don't know this and the "Reader" is Craig Toth, for the benefit of those who don't know that. So why not acknowledge the authorship of your opinions, in your case, Mr. Toth and the authorship of your filthy name calling in your case, Mr. Gebel. Are you ashamed of your product?

    Now to my point. Mr. Gebel, my comment on the harm you and Mr. Toth are doing and the scandal you are giviing comes from an innocent reader of your blogs. I may be wrong but that is my opinion. I am not trying to defend anyone. I don't even know who you are talking about. And if my commentary is written in atrocious English please forgive me. I thought the message was the important thing, not the messenger.

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